Joseph Prince, called a fraud by John Stott & deemed not a Christian by Derek Prince, taught against the costly discipleship of Jesus & lied 3 times – By Rev George Ong (Dated 28 May 2023)
Joseph Prince, who uses social media extensively to preach his heresies, is a serial liar – Lie No 6
Please note there are 3 videos on Derek Prince
and 2 videos on Joseph Prince.
The second video on Joseph Prince
is featured not in the main article
but under Appendix 1.
APPENDIX 1
If you want proof
that Joseph Prince’s imagination has gone berserk,
and that he is even lacking in common sense,
you mustn’t miss the second video on Joseph Prince
under Appendix 1 in the Article.
In the second video under Appendix 1, Joseph Prince said:
“The context I’ve just shown you,
I took pains to show you the context,
it is actually Jesus, not comfortable at all in this world of men.”
Frankly, when I first heard what Joseph Prince said
that he has shown us the context,
I was so disgusted that I felt like vomiting.
Joseph Prince is such a horrible hypocrite
that he can lie so openly and publicly
that he has shown us the context,
when there isn’t an iota of evidence that he has done it.
Yet, Joseph Prince has the cheek to say,
“I took pains to show you the context.”
Like the Hokkien would say,
“Li Eh Pai Seh Buay. Chin Siah Suay Leh?”
– meaning,
“Is Joseph Prince not shy and shameful to have said what he did?”
APPENDIX 2
Much more of John Stott’s insightful views about the crucial importance of discipleship in the Church’s life,
and the views of godly men such as
Charles Spurgeon, David Pawson, John Piper, John MacArthur, John Wesley, JI Packer, Paul Washer and Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
are found under Appendix 2.
EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE
1. By pitting the grace of Jesus in Luke 15
against the discipleship demands of Jesus in Luke 14,
Joseph Prince has committed the terrible sin
of pitting Jesus against Jesus.
This is because Jesus, who is full of grace,
is the same person who calls us to costly discipleship,
and the same Christ, who calls us to costly discipleship,
will empower us with His grace to meet His tough demands.
2. But you may ask, what motivates Joseph Prince to do that?
Well, Joseph Prince’s real motive
is to ‘get rid’ (by twisting it) of such a demanding passage in Luke 14:26-27, 33 that is taught by Jesus,
as that would contradict his cheap-grace, easy-believism and feel-good-religion
and expose him as a fraud.
Joseph Prince’s
no-confession, no-repentance, no-guilt, no-obedience, no-discipleship, no-cost, no-sacrifice, no-suffering, no-martyrdom, no-law, no-effort, no-works, no-fasting, no-more-commandments-to-obey, no-more-fear-of-God, no-more-anger-from-God, no-more-punishment-from-God, no-more-judgement-from-God, no-sanctification-for-salvation, no-more-pleasing-and-loving God, no-more-examination-of-self, no-more-sins-to-confess, no-more-conviction-of-sin-from-the-Holy-Spirit, no-more-guilt-to-bother-you-with,
just-enjoy-the-love-and-the-grace-of-God feel-good grace teaching and easy Christianity,
is in total contradiction to and irreconcilable with
the tough demands and the costly discipleship of Jesus.
3. Joseph Prince, by his teaching
that Jesus wasn’t alluding to the cost of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33,
simply means that all that the Apostle Paul, Peter,
the rest of the disciples in the early church
and throughout the centuries of Christianity,
who did to live out their costly discipleship
by suffering, being imprisoned, and even being martyred,
were all done in vain.
Had not Paul given up everything to gain Christ?
Philippians 3:8 ESV
8 “Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.”
Had not Peter given up everything to follow Christ?
Matthew 19:27 NLT
27 Then Peter said to him, “We’ve given up everything to follow you…”
Had not the disciples given up everything to follow Christ?
Luke 5:11 NIV
11 “So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.”
Believers (including the Apostle Paul and 11 of Christ’s Apostles) throughout the centuries of Christianity
knew what the costly discipleship that Jesus preached in Luke 14:26-27, 33 meant
and had given up their lives for the sake of Christ.
These godly men and women
were willing to pay the ultimate price of discipleship
by giving up everything
and even their own lives in order to follow Christ.
Yet, these are the very godly men and women
that Joseph Prince mocks
when Prince said that
Christ wasn’t teaching costly discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33
– implying that these courageous martyrs
have suffered and died for Christ and the gospel
FOR NOTHING!
(This article was also sent to Rev Dr Ngoei Foong Nghian, General Secretary, National Council of Churches of Singapore (NCCS) office, and for the attention of the Executive Committee Members.)
In a weekly Sunday sermon aired on YouTube, last Sunday on 21 May 2023, Joseph Prince said;
Please click here to view the one-and-a-half-minute video:
“Just like, for example, when they came to Jesus in Luke 14, they came to Him, multitudes were thronging Him, He turned around.”
“But He turned around and told them (Lk 14:26-27, 33)
‘If any of you come after me, if you don’t hate your father, your mother, your wife, your children, and forsake all that you have, you cannot be my disciple.’
Now you think about it,
we turned the whole thing into a discipleship teaching.
But actually, what was He (Jesus) saying?
He’s (Jesus) saying,
‘You sure you want to come after me,’ like a rabbi teacher kind of thing. ‘Now, you don’t realise, you got to forsake everything that you have.’
It’s almost like, you feel like, He’s not comfortable in His response. He didn’t want that.
And the whole chapter (Luke 14) begins with Him entering the house
where the Pharisees were jockeying for position (Luke 14:1-14).”
“He didn’t feel comfortable in their world.”
“Then the very next verse, it’s Luke 15.
Then drew near the sinners. Now, the sinners came.
Look at Him.
Now He’s bringing them into His world (Luke 15).
His world of grace.
And look at the joy.
He starts sharing about the parable of the lost sheep.
How the shepherd would leave everyone of them and just find the one that’s lost.
And how He rejoices over that one that is lost.”
“And you find that this is God’s world in Luke 15.
But Luke 15 (Joseph Prince meant Luke 14), man’s world.
He wasn’t too comfortable,
the jockeying for position,
coming to Him,
‘Give me more laws. I want to be your student.’
(Jesus said),
‘You want to come after me, forsake all that you have.’
But to the sinner (Luke 15), He never said that.
He told them about God’s love and how God is reaching out.
He’s finding the lost.”
“Grace has come, men.”
Joseph Prince is such an evil man who is full of deceit
that he blatantly lied 3 times about discipleship.
First, Joseph Prince lied that Jesus didn’t mean what He said
when He laid down the terms and His demands of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33.
To Joseph Prince, Jesus was using Luke 14:26-27, 33
to spite the multitudes with whom He wasn’t comfortable.
This is outrageous!
In my 56 years as a Christian,
this is the first time I have ever heard Luke 14:26-27, 33
being interpreted in the negative and twisted way that Joseph Prince had done.
By his interpretation,
Joseph Prince is implying that all our early Church fathers, Reformation fathers, Bible commentators, pastors and preachers
throughout the centuries of Christianity,
who have taught on the cost of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33, the Jesus’ way, were all wrong,
and he is the only one who is right.
By clearly implying that Jesus’ intention was not to teach and affirm the high cost of discipleship,
simply means that all that the Apostles Paul, Peter,
the rest of the disciples in the early church
and throughout the centuries of Christianity,
who did to live out their costly discipleship
by suffering, being imprisoned, and even being martyred,
were all done in vain.
Just imagine!
Even Jesus’ real intention for teaching on the cost of discipleship was not spared
and had to be twisted to fit Joseph Prince’s perverse grace theology.
Joseph Prince has the unholy daringness to ascribe an intention to Jesus
when there is absolutely no evidence in that passage to support it.
Regardless of whether Jesus was comfortable with the ‘great multitudes’ in Luke 14:25 or not,
the point is that when Jesus laid down the cost of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33,
He meant every word that He said
and was absolutely sincere about His intention.
I dare say Joseph Prince is lying
because he would not be able to produce
a single reputable Evangelical Bible teacher, commentator or scholar,
who supports his totally warped view.
On the contrary, there are many credible Bible teachers and scholars, such as
John Stott, Derek Prince, Charles Spurgeon, John Wesley, David Pawson, John Piper, John MacArthur, JI Packer, Paul Washer and Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
who are featured in this article,
and who hold the view that Jesus meant what he said in Luke 14:26-27, 33.
I can confidently say that all 10 of them,
represent the view of all, if not most, of other credible Bible teachers
throughout the centuries of Christianity.
Second, Joseph Prince lied when he said:
“(Jesus said to the multitudes in Luke 14:25,33),
‘You want to come after me, forsake all that you have.’
But to the sinner (Luke 15), He never said that.”
Joseph Prince stated that Jesus never said what He said in Luke 14:26-27, 33
to the sinners in Luke 15:1,
but only to the multitudes in Luke 14:25.
This is a nonsensical argument without any sense of logic.
Any sensible Bible teacher, or even a Christian with a fair amount of Bible knowledge,
would be aware that what Jesus said in Luke 14:26-27, 33
is not just for the multitudes in Luke 14:25,
but for every sinner,
whether they are found in Luke 15:1 during biblical times,
or we, in the present,
who wants to follow Him and be saved.
For example, Jesus said:
Luke 13:1-5 NIV
1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them – do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Is Christ stating in verses 3 and 5 of Luke 13,
that only those who heard him speak those words
at that particular time and specific place;
that they will perish if they don’t repent?
Of course not!
Though Jesus was telling the people directly
that they would perish if they don’t repent,
He is also stating that the same tragic outcome would happen to all,
whether they are living during Jesus’ days,
or whether we are living in the present.
So, what Jesus said about the cost of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33,
is certainly not only for the multitudes in Luke 14:25,
but it also applies to all people,
including those sinners in Luke 15:1,
and every one of us, today.
Third, Joseph Prince lied when he said:
“Now He’s bringing them into His world (Luke 15).
His world of grace.”
“He told them about God’s love and how God is reaching out.
He’s finding the lost.”
“Grace has come, men.”
Joseph Prince lied that the grace of Jesus has come
only in Luke 15, but not in Luke 14.
How can that be?
The Bible says in John 1:17,
“For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
The Apostle John said grace had already come
in the human person of Christ in the gospels.
And out of that fullness of grace in Christ
that was recorded in John 1:14 NASB,
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth;
out of the fullness of grace in His whole being in the flesh,
Christ ministered His grace and the grace message
to many people in the gospels,
regardless of whether they are in Luke 14 or Luke 15.
The trouble is that because of his feel-good Christianity,
Joseph Prince can only see the grace of Jesus
when He utters pleasant things to us in Luke 15.
But when Jesus said some tough things about discipleship in Luke 14,
he rejects the grace of Jesus altogether,
even though there was grace.
Joseph Prince deceptively pits the grace of Jesus in Luke 15.
against the cost of discipleship of Christ in Luke 14.
By pitting the grace of Jesus in Luke 15
against the discipleship demands of Jesus in Luke 14,
Joseph Prince has committed the terrible sin
of pitting Jesus against Jesus.
This is because Jesus, who is full of grace,
is the same person who calls us to costly discipleship,
and the same Christ, who calls us to costly discipleship,
will empower us with His grace to meet His tough demands.
Joseph Prince sets up a false dichotomy
between the grace of Jesus in Luke 15
and the costly discipleship of Jesus in Luke 14.
But Charles Spurgeon rightfully sees them as one harmonious whole
– that it is truly the grace of God that will empower us
to obey the costly discipleship demands of Jesus.
In ‘Commentary on Matthew, The Gospel of the Kingdom,’ Charles Spurgeon said:
Matthew 8:21-22
21. And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
“We may leave work which another can do when our Lord appoints us a peculiar personal service.
It must be Christ first, and father next.
Living commands must take precedence of duties to the dead.
Soldiers cannot be excused from war on account of domestic claims.”
22. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Our Lord repeated his command, “Follow me.”
Others could bury the dead;
it was for the disciple to obey his orders.
“Follow me” is a precept
which will need all our powers to carry it out;
but by grace, we will obey.”
Indeed, though the discipleship demands of the Lord Jesus
are tough to meet;
but that’s where we need the grace of Christ
that will empower us to do the ‘impossible’.
Discipleship and grace are to be seen as one harmonious whole,
and not as opposing forces that Joseph Prince craftily tries to posture.
Joseph Prince, is indeed, a serial liar:
For Lie No 1,
“Joseph Prince falsely accuses the Lord Jesus, who is God Himself, of being a false prophet,”
Please click on the link below to view
For Lie No 2,
“Joseph Prince lied & made Jesus a liar when he said that Jesus doesn’t tell you about your faults,”
Please click on the link below to view
For Lie No 3,
“Joseph Prince lied against Paul, Peter, Jesus & Father God for preaching a no-repentance gospel,”
Please click on the link below to view
For Lie No 4,
“Joseph Prince double-talked & lied as he made Jesus & Paul liars when he said Christ could come back at any time”
Please click on the link below to view
For Lie No 5,
Joseph Prince is on sabbatical this year, repeats his sermons & lies 27 times that he preached every Sunday during COVID-19
Please click on the link below to view
Next, let me feature what John Stott, Derek Prince and Charles Spurgeon said and wrote about the costly discipleship of Jesus.
John Stott, who is a giant in Bible exposition,
upholds the teachings of Jesus on discipleship.
In ‘The Message of the Sermon on the Mount,’ John Stott wrote:
“If there is such a thing as ‘cheap reunion’,
there is ‘cheap evangelism’ also,
namely, the proclamation of the gospel
without the cost of discipleship,
the demand for faith
without repentance.
These are forbidden shortcuts.
They turn the evangelist into a fraud.
They cheapen the gospel and damage the cause of Christ.”
John Stott has clearly stated that
those who proclaim the gospel without repentance
and the cost of discipleship,
is a fraud.
All of you should know by now that
Joseph Prince preaches a no-repentance gospel
and he teaches against the cost of discipleship,
both of these are the core teachings of Jesus.
So, according to John Stott,
Joseph Prince is indeed a fraud!
(I appeal to all Anglicans, especially the Singapore Anglican Pastors,
to take special note of what John Stott (who is a well-respected Anglican around the world) said,
that leads one to confidently conclude
that Joseph Prince is a fraud.)
So, how can Joseph Prince, who is a fraud
claim that he is preaching the Jesus of the Bible.
By preaching against the costly demands of Jesus in Luke 14:26-27, 33
Joseph Prince is clearly preaching the counterfeit Jesus,
his own concoction of the feel-good Jesus.
One who preaches the counterfeit Jesus
is a heretic and a wolf in sheepskin.
Much more of John Stott’s insightful views
about the crucial importance of discipleship in the Church’s life,
and the views of godly men such as
Charles Spurgeon, David Pawson, John Piper, John MacArthur, John Wesley, JI Packer, Paul Washer and Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
are found in Appendix 2.
Like John Stott, Derek Prince
is another giant in Bible exposition,
who endorses the discipleship teachings of Jesus.
Derek Prince said;
Please click here to view the 25-second video:
“Acts 11:26, And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.”
You know the word ‘Christian’ only occurs three times in the New Testament.
That’s one of its uses.
What kind of people were called Christians?
I didn’t hear you.
Disciples.
That’s right.
So those who are not disciples,
have no right to call themselves Christians.
No Biblical right.”
According to Derek Prince,
Joseph Prince, who is not only not a disciple,
but he is also one who teaches against discipleship;
and hence, he has no biblical right to call himself a Christian.
If Joseph Prince isn’t a Christian,
how can he be saved in the first place?
Derek Prince said;
Please click here to view the 35-second video:
“So, Jesus said, “Go and make disciples…”
And the problem is that we have not kept His commandments.
There have been wonderful exceptions.
I’ll tell you the problem about making church members who are not disciples.
Number one, they give the world a false picture of what Christianity is.
How many times have you heard people say,
‘Well, if that’s what Christianity is, I don’t want to be part of it.’
I wouldn’t either.
But it isn’t what Christianity is.
The demonstration of Christianity is disciples.”
Derek Prince, by saying that,
“The demonstration of Christianity is disciples,”
simply means that if there is no discipleship,
there is no Christianity to speak of.
By preaching against discipleship,
what this means is Joseph Prince
isn’t preaching Christianity or even Christ to start with,
as discipleship is the core teaching and heartbeat of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer aptly wrote:
“Christianity without discipleship
is always Christianity without Christ.”
Derek Prince said;
Please click here to view the one-minute video:
“What will actually precipitate the return of the Lord
is the proclaiming of the gospel of the kingdom to all nations.
Because, when He left, He said to His disciples,
‘Go into all the world, preach the gospel to every creature,
go and make disciples of all nations.’
He is not coming back till we’ve done it.
Having spent five and a half years in the British army, I know about military orders.
Orders are orders.
And the first thing they tell you in the army is ignorance of orders is no excuse for disobeying.
Can I say that to you?
Ignorance of orders is no excuse for disobeying.
And then they said once orders are given by an authority, they’re in force until they’re cancelled by someone with authority.
Jesus is the authority.
He gave those orders.
He’s never cancelled them.
They are still in force.
And He’s not going to come back
for a church that has failed to carry out His orders.”
Derek Prince said that the orders to make disciples of all nations,
was given by the Lord Jesus Himself,
and He expects the Church to carry out His orders.
Unbelievably, Joseph Prince has daringly disobeyed the orders of the Lord Jesus,
as he plainly refuses to preach on the issue of making disciples in the Great Commission.
How can Joseph Prince claim to be preaching the Jesus of the Bible
when the most important command and heartbeat of Christ
for the Church in the Great Commission (Matt 28:18-20)
is not even given any emphasis in his teachings?
Any preacher who never preaches on the importance of the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20
ought to set the alarm bells ringing!
I have been a Christian for 56 years,
and I haven’t found any true teacher of the word
who dares to do what Joseph Prince did
– to defiantly disobey Jesus
by refusing to preach on the Great Commission.
The Great Commission to make disciples
is one crucial command of Christ
that every single church in every nation of every generation
has and will continue to emphasise.
No true church will dare disobey
such an important command of the Lord Jesus.
What is worse and cannot be stomached
is that Joseph Prince has replaced the Great Commission of Jesus
with his own Grace Revolution gospel (which is a false gospel).
Joseph Prince is effectively saying to Jesus:
“Hey, Jesus, your idea of winning the world through the Great Commission by making disciples
wouldn’t work
as your tough discipleship demands
will put people off and chase everybody away.
I have a better idea
– through my Grace Revolution gospel,
the easy gospel,
the no-repentance
and no-hassle gospel,
that is guaranteed to bring in the crowds.”
Joseph Prince, by his failure to carry out the Great Commission,
and for replacing it with his Grace Revolution gospel,
is outright rebellion and blatant disobedience
to the most important command
that the Lord Jesus has given the Church.
No one who rejects the Great Commission of the Lord Jesus
can be a true prophet.
This fact alone is enough for anyone
to indict and nail Joseph Prince as a false prophet!
Anyone who believes Joseph Prince,
who rejects and even teaches against the Jesus’ gospel in the Great Commission
to be a true prophet
must be out of his mind.
Yet, there are multitudes of such mindless Christians around.
And sadly, many of them include Pastors and leaders of churches.
Unthinkable!
If Joseph Prince dares to replace
the Great Commission gospel of Christ
with his Grace Revolution gospel,
how can any pastor or believer
who truly shares the heartbeat of Christ for the world
stomach it and keep quiet about this violation?
By Joseph Prince’s audacity to treat the Great Commission,
the heartbeat of the King of kings and the Lord of lords
with such contempt,
no more convincing needs to be done to anyone
that he is a false prophet, a heretic and a wolf in sheepskin.
If Joseph Prince can rebel against Christ
in such a blatant manner,
how can a Singapore Methodist Bishop
and a Singapore Presbyterian Pastor
say he is not a heretic?
Conclusion
In conclusion, Joseph Prince, by his teaching
that Jesus wasn’t alluding to the cost of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33,
simply means that all that the Apostle Paul, Peter,
the rest of the disciples in the early church
and throughout the centuries of Christianity,
who did to live out their costly discipleship
by suffering, being imprisoned, and even being martyred,
were all done in vain.
Had not Paul given up everything to gain Christ?
Philippians 3:8 ESV
8 “Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.”
Had not Peter given up everything to follow Christ?
Matthew 19:27 NLT
27 Then Peter said to him, “We’ve given up everything to follow you…”
Had not the disciples given up everything to follow Christ?
Luke 5:11 NIV
11 “So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.”
Believers (including the Apostle Paul and 11 of Christ’s Apostles) throughout the centuries of Christianity
knew what the costly discipleship that Jesus preached in Luke 14:26-27, 33 meant
and had given up their lives for the sake of Christ.
These godly men and women
were willing to pay the ultimate price of discipleship
by giving up everything
and even their own lives in order to follow Christ.
Yet, these are the very godly men and women
that Joseph Prince mocks
when Prince said that
Christ wasn’t teaching costly discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33
– implying that these courageous martyrs
have suffered and died for Christ and the gospel
FOR NOTHING!
The cost of discipleship is such a crucial doctrine
that is inaugurated and taught
by none other than Jesus, the Son of God Himself
that any responsible and sensible teacher of God’s word
would uphold it at every opportunity.
Instead of affirming such a crucial doctrine,
Joseph Prince deliberately chooses to demean and degrade it.
This can only come from the work
of an antichrist, a heretic and a wolf in sheepskin.
Rev George Ong
Appendix 1
This is another video on Joseph Prince
which is closely related to the first video,
(featured at the beginning of this article)
in terms of the content of what he said.
Joseph Prince said in this video;
Please click here to view the one-minute video:
“The great multitudes came after Him.
These were the people (great multitudes in Lk 14:25 NKJV),
the company that came from the house of the Pharisee (Lk 14:1 NKJV).
And they came up to Him, alright, with all the different reasons – predominantly, self-righteousness.
‘I can do it; I just have to learn what you did’. They are not seeing Jesus as a Saviour. They are seeing Jesus as an example.
Look at Jesus’ thoughts – is He comfortable?
He turned around, He turned around, He turned to the multitudes and said,
‘If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, yes, and his own life also, cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.’ (Lk 14:26-27)
‘So, likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.’ (Lk 14:33)
The context I’ve just shown you,
I took pains to show you the context,
it is actually Jesus, not comfortable at all in this world of men.
(Jesus) turned around and said,
‘If you want to see me as a pattern, you want me as an example,
do what I did – give up everything.
I gave up heaven to come to buy that pearl of great price, that treasure hidden in the field.
Can you do it?’
And we take this whole thing and say,
‘This is what we must learn to do, count the cost.’”
So, from the viewpoint of Joseph Prince,
the great multitudes in Luke 14:25
are of the same kind as the Pharisees in Luke 14:1-24,
who are self-righteous.
Therefore, they came to Jesus with a self-righteous attitude
not to be saved but just to learn from him as an example.
Hence, according to Joseph Prince,
what Jesus said in 14:26-27, 33 to give up everything,
He is not saying to genuinely communicate the costs of discipleship per se,
but to hit back at the great multitudes for their self-righteousness
– that if they come to Him in a self-righteous way and want to see him as an example
– then they must give up everything
– just to spite them or to teach them a lesson.
Joseph Prince said:
“The great multitudes came after Him.
These were the people (‘great multitudes’ in Lk 14:25 NKJV),
the company that came from the house of the Pharisee (Lk 14:1 NKJV).”
How does Joseph Prince know that the ‘great multitudes’ in Luke 14:25
are those who came from the Pharisee’s house in Luke 14:1?
Luke 14:25-27 NKJV
25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Since this wasn’t stated anywhere in the text,
Joseph Prince has sinfully read into it and added to God’s word.
His overall game plan
was to tar the ‘great multitudes’ and the Pharisees
with the same Pharisaic brush
in order to craftily set it up for his false interpretation.
So, Joseph Prince has to assume that Luke 14:1-24 and Luke 14:25-35
form one and the same continuing and unbroken episode.
Specifically, he has to presume that the people Jesus was talking to in Luke 14:1:24
is the same group of people He was talking to in Luke 14:25-35 (specifically, the ‘great multitudes’ in Luke 14:25).
He has to presuppose that both categories of people from Luke 14:1-24 and Luke 14:25-35
are one and the same, both possessing a self-righteous Pharisaic attitude.
This is a terribly weak argument
because it is based merely on presumption.
This presumption is critical to Joseph Prince’s interpretation.
Once this is torn down,
his whole position and interpretation of the issue will go down the drain.
How can a so-called world-renowned teacher of God’s word build an interpretation of a text
based just on such a flimsy assumption?
To any objective observer,
Luke 14:1-24 and Luke 14:25-35 are two separate episodes/incidents.
Also, the people that Jesus was talking to in Luke 14:1-24
are rather different from those in Luke 14:25-35.
By assuming that these ‘great multitudes’ in Luke 14:25
came from the Pharisee’s house in Luke 14:1,
(the one who invited Jesus to a meal),
shows that Joseph Prince’s imagination has gone berserk.
How could such ‘great multitudes’
have come from the Pharisee’s house?
When the gospels use the word ‘multitudes,’
it connotes a big crowd of people.
Two clear examples are the feeding of the five thousand and four thousand:
Matthew 14:19-21 NKJV
19 “Then He commanded the multitudes to sit down on the grass. And He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke and gave the loaves to the disciples; and the disciples gave to the multitudes. 20 So they all ate and were filled, and they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments that remained. 21 Now those who had eaten were about five thousand men, besides women and children.”
Matthew 15:33,38-39 NKJV
33 “Then His disciples said to Him, ‘Where could we get enough bread in the wilderness to fill such a great multitude?’ 38 Now those who ate were four thousand men, besides women and children. 39 And He sent away the multitude, got into the boat, and came to the region of Magdala.”
No matter how big the Pharisee’s house is in Luke 14:1,
it is impossible to contain such ‘great multitudes’ amounting to thousands in Luke 14:25:
Luke 14:1 NKJV
1 Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely.
Luke 14:25 NKJV
25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
Let’s not talk about Bible exegesis,
even from the test of simple logic,
Joseph Prince’s interpretation of the text has failed terribly.
Even if the ‘great multitudes’ could somehow be magically defined
as referring to a much smaller group of people,
there is still no concrete proof in the passage
that the ‘great multitudes’ in Luke 14:25
came from the house of the Pharisee in Luke 14:1.
Joseph Prince has to wildly presume
and read his own fanciful ideas into the text.
Prince will go to any lengths,
even at the expense of posturing an impossible and foolish presumption,
just to prove his grace theology
and tear down the discipleship teachings of Jesus.
I have studied the issue and referred to commentaries,
and so far, I have not yet come across any commentator
who says that the people mentioned in Luke 14:1-24
is the same as that of Luke 14:25-35.
From an objective reading of Luke 14,
we can safely conclude that the Pharisees’ group (Lk 14:1-7,12,15)
and the ‘great multitudes’ (Lk 14:25)
are two different groups of people.
This goes to indicate that an interpretation
based on silence and mere conjecture, like what Joseph Prince did
is at best amateurish and cannot be conclusive.
Joseph Prince said:
“And they (great multitudes in Luke 14:25) came up to Him (Jesus), alright, with all the different reasons,
predominantly, self-righteousness.
‘I can do it; I just have to learn what you did.’”
What evidence does Joseph Prince have to conclude
that the ‘great multitudes’ were self-righteous in their attitudes?
Joseph Prince’s interpretations are incredibly built on one presumption after another.
Joseph Prince has to again read into the text in order to support his position.
He certainly possesses great imagination when it comes to Bible interpretation
– the trouble is, it is based on no fact but all imagination
So, how can we trust this fellow’s exegesis?
Joseph Prince said:
“They are not seeing Jesus as a Saviour.
They are seeing Jesus as an example.
Look at Jesus’ thoughts – is He comfortable?”
Wow! Joseph Prince has suddenly become a psychologist
who has the ability to psycho-analyse Jesus’ inner feelings.
He has also taken on the role of a mind-reader,
being able to read the mind of Jesus.
And he presumptuously said that Jesus was uncomfortable with the ‘great multitudes’
– presumption after presumption.
He ought to write a book
– “Effective Interpretation of scriptures through Imaginative Presumption”.
Joseph Prince said:
“The context I’ve just shown you,
I took pains to show you the context,
it is actually Jesus, not comfortable at all in this world of men.”
Frankly, when I first heard what Joseph Prince said
that he has shown us the context,
I was so disgusted that I felt like vomiting.
Joseph Prince is such a horrible hypocrite
that he can lie so openly and publicly
that he has shown us the context
when there isn’t an iota of evidence that he has done it.
This is getting ridiculous.
This is the first time I have ever heard a teacher of God’s word locating or justifying the context of a passage
by presumption after presumption,
and psycho-analysing Jesus about how he really felt on the inside
without any concrete facts and evidence to back it up.
And Joseph Prince has the cheek to say,
“I took pains to show you the context.”
Like the Hokkien would say,
“Li Eh Pai Seh Buay. Chin Siah Suay Leh?”
– meaning,
“Is Joseph Prince not shy and shameful to have said what he did?”
We would expect a much higher standard of Bible exegesis from a so-called world-renowned speaker like Prince.
I am terribly outraged that Prince’s Bible exegesis is so sloppy and amateurish.
It looks like if Joseph Prince can be a world-renowned speaker,
many preachers can too,
except that they don’t have his smooth-talking tongue.
Joseph Prince said:
“… it is actually Jesus, not comfortable at all in this world of men.”
How did Joseph Prince know Jesus was not comfortable with these great multitudes in Luke 14:25?
Where is his proof?
If one has read through Luke 14 and 15, the texts that Joseph Prince used to preach this sermon,
nothing was explicitly mentioned
that Jesus was uncomfortable with these great multitudes in Luke 14:25.
Yet, Prince has the cheek to say,
“I took pains to show you the context.”
Even if Jesus really felt uncomfortable
with the great multitudes in Luke 14:25
and even if the great multitudes are self-righteous,
as Joseph Prince has tried to posture,
SO WHAT!
Does that mean that Jesus’ words in Luke 14:25-35 should be discounted
– that Jesus wasn’t genuinely speaking about the costs of discipleship?
Regardless of whether Jesus was comfortable or not
and whether the great multitudes in Luke 14:25 were self-righteous or not,
the point is that when Jesus laid down the costs of discipleship in Luke 14:26-27, 33,
He meant every word that He said.
It was Joseph Prince who twisted it and implied that Jesus didn’t mean what He said at all because He had another intention.
Joseph Prince said:
“And we take this whole thing and say,
‘This is what we must learn to do, count the cost.’”
This is outrageous!
This is the first time I have ever heard Luke 14:26-27, 33
being interpreted in the negative and twisted way that Joseph Prince had done.
Just imagine!
– Even Jesus’s real intention for teaching on the cost of discipleship was not spared
and had to be twisted to fit Joseph Prince’s perverse grace theology.
Joseph Prince is absolutely daring to ascribe an intention to Jesus
when there is absolutely no evidence in that passage to support it.
The truth is that when Jesus laid down the cost of discipleship,
He was absolutely sincere about His intention.
Appendix 2
John Stott’s insightful views
about the crucial importance of discipleship in the Church’s life,
and the views of godly men such as
Charles Spurgeon, David Pawson, John Piper, John MacArthur, John Wesley, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, JI Packer and Paul Washer,
are found here.
In ‘Basic Christianity,’ John Stott wrote:
“Jesus never concealed the fact that his religion
included a demand as well as an offer.
Indeed, the demand was as total as the offer was free.
His offer of salvation
always brings with it the requirement that we obey him.
He gave no encouragement at all to those who applied to become his disciples without thinking it through.
He brought no pressure to bear on any enquirer.
He sent irresponsible enthusiasts away with nothing.
Luke tells us of three people who either volunteered, or were invited, to follow Jesus;
but not one of them passed the Lord’s tests.
There was also the rich young ruler
– an individual who was good, earnest and attractive in many ways,
but who wanted eternal life on his own terms.
He went away sad, with his wealth intact,
but possessing neither eternal life nor Christ.
On another occasion, great crowds were following Jesus.
Perhaps, they were shouting out slogans of allegiance and giving an impressive outward display of their loyalty.
But Jesus knew how superficial it all was.”
“The message of Jesus was very different.
He never lowered his standards or changed his conditions
to make his call easier to accept.
He asked his first disciples, and he has asked every disciple since,
to give him their thoughtful and total commitment.
Nothing less than this will do.
So let us look at precisely what he said.
He called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said:
‘Whoever wants to be my disciple
must deny themselves
and take up their cross and follow me.
For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.’ (Mark 8:34-35 TNIV)
At its simplest, Christ’s call was ‘Follow me’.”
“Now there can be no following without a previous forsaking.
To follow Christ is to give up all lesser loyalties.
In the days of his ministry on earth, this often meant a literal abandonment of home and work.
Simon and Andrew ‘left their nets and followed him’.
James and John ‘left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him’.
Matthew, who heard Christ’s call while he was sitting at his tax booth, got up, left everything and followed him.
In principle, the call of the Lord Jesus is unchanged today.
He still says, ‘Follow me,’
and adds,
‘those of you who do not give up everything you have
cannot be my disciple.’”
“The next phrase Jesus used is to take up the cross:
‘Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves
and take up their cross and follow me.’
If we had lived in first-century Palestine and seen a man carrying his cross,
we should at once have recognized him as a convicted prisoner being led out to be put to death.
For Palestine was an occupied country, and this is what the Romans forced convicted criminals to do.
In his commentary on Mark’s Gospel,
Professor H. B. Swete wrote that to take up the cross is
‘to put oneself into the position of a condemned man on his way to execution’.
In other words, the attitude to self which we are to adopt is that of crucifixion.
Paul uses the same image when he declares that
‘those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires’.
In Luke’s version of this saying of Christ, the word ‘daily’ is added.
Every day, the Christian is to die.
Every day, we are to hand over the independence of our own will.
Every day, we are invited to renew our unconditional surrender to Jesus Christ.”
“So, in order to follow Christ,
we have to deny ourselves, to crucify ourselves, to lose ourselves.
The full, inescapable demand of Jesus Christ is now revealed in full.
He does not call us to a sloppy half-heartedness,
but to a vigorous, absolute commitment.
He calls us to make him our Lord.
Many people think that we can enjoy the benefits of Christ’s salvation
without accepting the challenge of his absolute authority.
There is no support for such an unbalanced idea in the New Testament.
‘Jesus is Lord’ is the earliest known summary of what Christians believe.
At a time when the Roman Empire was pressing its citizens to say ‘Caesar is Lord’, these were dangerous words.
But Christians did not flinch.
They simply could not give Caesar their first allegiance.
Why?
Because they had already given it to the Emperor Jesus.
God had placed his Son Jesus far above every other authority and given the highest possible status to him, so that
‘every knee should bow’ before him ‘and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord’.” (Phil 2:10-11)
“Another area of life which belongs under the lordship of Jesus Christ is our marriage and our home.
Jesus once said,
‘Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.’
He went on to speak of the clash of loyalties which sometimes arises within a family when one of its members begins to follow him.
Such family conflicts still take place today.
We should never actively look for them.
We have a clear duty to love and honour our parents and other members of our family.
Since we are called to be peacemakers, we will make as many concessions as we can without compromising our duty to God.
Yet we should never forget what Christ said:
‘Anyone who loves his father or mother…son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.’” (Matt 10:34,37)
“This is the life of discipleship to which Jesus Christ calls us.
He died and rose again that we might live a new life.
He has given us his Spirit so that we can live out this life in the world.
Now he calls us to follow him,
to give ourselves completely and unreservedly to his service.”
In ‘Christian Mission in the Modern World,’ John Stott wrote:
“I do not think I can conclude more appropriately than by quoting paragraph 4 of the Lausanne Covenant which is titled The Nature of Evangelism:
“… But evangelism itself is the proclamation of the historical, biblical Christ as Saviour and Lord, with a view to persuading people to come to him personally and so be reconciled to God.
In issuing the gospel invitation
we have no liberty to conceal the cost of discipleship.
Jesus still calls all who would follow him
to deny themselves, take up their cross…”
In ‘Christian Mission in the Modern World,’ John Stott wrote:
“First, let us consider conversion and the lordship of Christ.
We saw in the second chapter on evangelism
that repentance and faith are the twin demands of the gospel,
and we have already noted in this chapter
that the two together constitute conversion.
It is the element of repentance
which is regrettably absent from much modern evangelistic preaching,
although it was prominent in the message of our Lord (e.g., Mark 1:15; Luke 13:3, 5)
and of his apostles (e.g., Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30).”
“What is needed in preaching repentance today is both integrity and realism.
In all our evangelism, there must be integrity.
Our anxiety to win converts sometimes
induces us to mute the call to repentance.
But deliberately, to conceal this aspect of our message
is as dishonest as it is short-sighted.
Jesus himself never glossed over the cost of discipleship,
but rather summoned would-be disciples to
“sit down first and count the cost,”
for he was requiring them if they were to follow him
to deny themselves, take up their cross and die.
Any kind of slick “decisionism”
which sacrifices honesty on the altar of statistics
is bound to cause other casualties as well,
the victims of our own folly.”
In ‘Evangelical Truth,’ John Stott wrote:
Now Christ calls us
to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow him.
If then we are carrying a cross and following Christ,
there is only one place to which we can be going,
namely, to death.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran pastor, who himself died in a concentration camp in April 1945,
wrote in his justly famous book The Cost of Discipleship,
‘When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.’
Thus, cross-bearing and crucifixion were Jesus’ dramatic images of self-denial.”
“This teaching is extremely important today,
because the church has a constant tendency
to trivialize Christian discipleship.”
In ‘Evangelical Truth,’ John Stott wrote:
The Cape Town Confession of Faith
“We obey Christ.
Jesus calls us to discipleship,
to take up our cross and follow him
in the path of self-denial, servanthood and obedience.”
“God commands us to make known to all nations
the truth of God’s revelation
and the gospel of God’s saving grace through Jesus Christ,
calling all people to repentance, faith, baptism
and obedient discipleship.”
In ‘Evangelical Truth,’ John Stott wrote:
“… We lament the scandal of our shallowness and lack of discipleship,
and the scandal of our disunity and lack of love.
For both seriously damage our witness to the gospel.”
“Biblical mission demands that those who claim Christ’s name
should be like him, by taking up their cross, denying themselves,
and following him in the paths of humility, love, integrity, generosity, and servanthood.
To fail in discipleship and disciple-making,
is to fail at the most basic level of our mission.
The call of Christ to his Church comes to us afresh from the pages of the gospels:
‘Come and follow me’;
‘Go and make disciples’.”
Like John Stott and Derek Prince,
Charles Spurgeon, who is another giant in Bible exposition,
affirms the teachings of Jesus on discipleship.
In ‘Commentary on Matthew, The Gospel of the Kingdom,’ Charles Spurgeon said:
Matthew 7:21
21. Not every one that saith unto me, lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
“Our King receives not into his kingdom
those whose religion lies in words and ceremonies;
but only those whose lives display
the obedience of true discipleship.”
In ‘The New Testament, Spurgeon’s Sermons by Each Book,’ Charles Spurgeon said:
“Take up your cross!
It is a part of the cost of true discipleship.”
“Take up your cross! My brother,
unless you do, you cannot be Christ’s disciple.”
“Well, but it will involve a change even in my daily life.
Make the change, my brother,
or you cannot be the Lord’s disciple.”
In ‘Commentary of the New Testament,’ Charles Spurgeon said:
Luke 14:25-26
25, 26. And there went great multitudes with him: He turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
“We must be willing to give up everything
– to give up even ourselves – our entire selves – to him,
for Christ will have all or nothing.
He will never divide the human heart with any rival.
If we profess to serve him, we must have him for our only Master,
and not attempt to serve two masters.”
Luke 14:27
27. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
“Our Lord’s words are very clear and explicit:
“‘And whosoever doth not bear his cross,’
– be he who he may, whatever pretensions or professions he may make
– if he does not bear his cross, ‘and come after me,
cannot be my disciple.’”
Luke 14:33
33. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
“In Christ’s days, and afterwards,
discipleship usually involved the absolute giving up of everything that his followers had,
for those were times of persecution;
and if such seasons should come to us,
we must have such love to Christ that,
for his sake, we could forsake all that we have;
otherwise, we cannot be his disciples.”
In ‘The Gospel According to Jesus,’ John MacArthur wrote:
“Jesus said to him (rich young ruler),
“If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieved; for he was one who owned much property (vv. 16–22).”
“If we could condense the truth of this entire passage into a single statement,
it would be Luke 14:33:
“So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.”
Our Lord gave this young man a test.
He had to choose between his possessions and Jesus Christ.
He failed the test.
No matter what points of doctrine he might affirm,
because he was unwilling to turn from what else he loved most,
he could not be a disciple of Christ.
Salvation is only for those who are willing to give Christ first place in their lives.
The issue here was clearly this man’s salvation,
not some higher level of discipleship subsequent to conversion.
His question was about how to obtain eternal life.”
In a sermon on Luke 14:25-35,
David Pawson, who is a brilliant thinker and an excellent Bible teacher said:
“And Jesus says Christianity
means a cross, not a cushion.
It is not a bed of roses, but a crown of thorns.
If you want to be my disciple,
then take up your own cross.
I took up mine, but you take up your own.
And the cross is not a minor ailment.
When a lady talked to me about her rheumatism and said,
‘That is the cross I have to bear,’
I just cringe.
Look, a cross doesn’t give you rheumatism.
It gives you death.
A cross kills you.
A cross is an instrument of torture and execution.
A cross kills you dead!
And Jesus isn’t just saying
‘I want you to take up hardship.’
but
‘I want you to take up death to yourself.’
This is the one thing we find so difficult to do
– to die daily and to say of myself,
“that’s dead”.”
“Somebody said that salvation is free, but it is not cheap.
Salvation is free – you can’t do anything to earn it
but it is not cheap.
It costs you nothing to begin the Christian life;
it will cost you everything to continue it.
That is the truth.”
In a sermon on Matthew 28:18-20,
John Piper, who is a competent Bible teacher, wrote:
“And observe also in verse 19 that our mission
is to ‘make disciples’ for Jesus.
‘Go and make disciples.’
The most important word I think Jesus ever said
about becoming a disciple was Luke 14:27,
‘Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.’
Bearing a cross does not mean primarily having hard times.
It means going to Golgotha.
It means dying with Christ
– dying to the old attitudes of envy and strife and jealousy and anger and selfishness and pride;
and turning to follow Jesus in newness of life.
When we make disciples,
we bid people to come and die to their old, destructive ways
and to live for Jesus, who loved them and gave himself for them.”
There are also other godly men, such as
John Wesley, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, JI Packer and Paul Washer,
who uphold the costly discipleship teachings of Jesus.
John Wesley wrote;
“The church changes the world not by making converts
but by making disciples.”
Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote:
Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness
without requiring repentance….
Cheap grace
is grace without discipleship…”
JI Packer wrote:
“We meet God through entering into a relationship both of dependence on Jesus as our Saviour and Friend
and of discipleship to Him as our Lord and Master.”
Paul Washer wrote:
“In the gospel of Jesus, sincere and costly discipleship always accompanies genuine conversion.
The gospel of Jesus teaches men that a mere profession of faith alone is no sound evidence of salvation.”
In conclusion,
the view on discipleship
by John Stott, Derek Prince, Charles Spurgeon, John Wesley, David Pawson, John Piper, John MacArthur, JI Packer, Paul Washer and Dietrich Bonhoeffer,
which represent the views of all reputable Evangelical Bible teachers,
throughout the centuries of Christianity,
meant that Joseph Prince
has blatantly lied and spoken deceitfully and falsely
regarding the costly discipleship of Jesus.
The word of God has this warning for Joseph Prince:
Psalm 101:7 NIV
7 No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house;
no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence.
But you may ask, what motivates Joseph Prince to do that?
Well, Joseph Prince’s real motive
is to ‘get rid’ (by twisting it) of such a demanding passage in Luke 14:26-27, 33 that is taught by Jesus,
as that would contradict his cheap-grace, easy-believism and feel-good-religion
and expose him as a fraud.
Joseph Prince’s
no-confession, no-repentance, no-guilt, no-obedience, no-discipleship, no-cost, no-sacrifice, no-suffering, no-martyrdom, no-law, no-effort, no-works, no-fasting, no-more-commandments-to-obey, no-more-fear-of-God, no-more-anger-from-God, no-more-punishment-from-God, no-more-judgement-from-God, no-sanctification-for-salvation, no-more-pleasing-and-loving God, no-more-examination-of-self, no-more-sins-to-confess, no-more-conviction-of-sin-from-the-Holy-Spirit, no-more-guilt-to-bother-you-with,
just-enjoy-the-love-and-the-grace-of-God feel-good grace teaching and easy Christianity,
is in total contradiction to and irreconcilable with
the tough demands and the costly discipleship of Jesus.